Budget Workshop Meeting II
Catskill Town Hall
October 21, 2008 7:05 pm
Attendance: Peter Markou, Supervisor
Robert Antonelli, Councilman
Lewis O’Connor, Councilman
Patrick Walsh, Councilman
Michael Smith, Councilman
Elizabeth Izzo, Town Clerk
Sandy Misevcis, Town Comptroller
Supervisor Markou called the meeting to order. He asked if any member of the Board had any proposed changes. He also asked if the Board would like to go through the budget line by line.
Councilman Smith stated that since we had already gone through line by line, we should address any issue to the specific line item.
Joseph Izzo had a question regarding the Town Comptroller’s salary. It indicated a 1.5% increase where every other employee, other than those under Union contract, is getting 4%.
Sandy stated that the reason she is at 1.5% is that last year her salary was budgeted too much in regards to the step program. She was on a higher step program last year, this amount is to even that out. Sandy stated she has no issue.
Kay Stamer, GCCA, questioned the continued funding for their youth program. Sandy stated it is under Celebrations. The Town gives $1,000 to their program.
Supervisor Markou asked if anyone else would like to be heard.
Dana Hanusik approached the Board regarding Babe Ruth and the possible funding (line item) of $5,000 to cover the electric and water for the field. He wanted to know if there would be a municipal rate.
Supervisor Markou stated there is no such animal. Councilman O’Connor stated municipal rates are not for parks. Supervisor Markou asked if the electric is on a demand meter. Mr. Hanusik stated yes.
Councilman Antonelli stated we can’t honor because of the lease agreement we have with Babe Ruth. The agreement states that Babe Ruth, which is not-for-profit, leases the field for $1.
Councilman O’Connor stated that where Babe Ruth is; it is not a Town Park, because it is leased by a private, non-for-profit organization. He stated we can’t give money.
Mr. Hanusik is here as a concerned person and is a trustee on the Babe Ruth Board.
Councilman Antonelli asked if Babe Ruth would be speaking with the Community Center to merge and maybe then the lease could be voided and then the Community Center would negotiate with the Town in regards to a new lease.
Councilman Smith stated programs that relate to children are supported. He asked if Babe Ruth advertises and collects revenues and where revenues received stand in their request for Town funding. Mr. Hanusik stated that information could be provided in the future. Councilman Smith stated that once that information is received then maybe we can add a line item.
Councilman Antonelli disagreed to the line item. He stated Babe Ruth is a private organization. They have never asked for money before. Babe Ruth has always been self-sufficient.
Mr. Hanusik stated the only change in Babe Ruth’s perspective is that the property is now owned by the Town. He stated they are comparing that to the Village’s Elliot Park and that they (Village) take care of the electric and water.
Councilman O’Connor stated that there is no lease with Little League and the Village. Mr. Hanusik stated that they have sole use though. Councilman O’Connor doesn’t believe that.
Mr. Hanusik stated that the Village’s perspective is different because at the time, the Cemetery owned the land that Babe Ruth used and the lease was with them, for Babe Ruth use only. Mr. Hanusik stated that since the Town owns the property, if Babe Ruth was no longer there, it would still be a Town park.
Councilman Antonelli stated it isn’t a Town Park. Mr. Hanusik stated it would be considered one if Babe Ruth wasn’t there. The Board stated no, it wouldn’t.
Councilman Antonelli stated that all youth functions should go through the Community Center. Mr. Hanusik then asked if the budget for the Center could then be increased so they can get the money that way. Councilman Antonelli stated that the Board wants to cut their budget. Mr. Hanusik stated to increase it by $5,000 and then he could run it from there. Councilman Antonelli stated that all control of Babe Ruth would be run through the Community Center then.
Mr. Izzo stated that the lease agreement between Babe Ruth and the Town of Catskill is for the land only. It has nothing to do with the infrastructure. When there is a lease of public land, there needs to be full market value or some sort of return. In the lease, the return is the use of the property. This was subject to permissive referendum. The resolution so stated and the lease was approved.
The lease is specific as to the obligations of both parties. The obligation of the Town is the land itself and the obligation of the Babe Ruth League is to pay for everything that is associated with running that operation. If the Town was to assume costs associated with their obligation, then there would need to be a change in the lease agreement and a whole new process.
If the money is budgeted in the Community Center’s line item and they turn around and give the money to Babe Ruth, this may be an indirect bypass of the provisions of the lease.
If the Town adds a separate line item, then it will open the field to other than Babe Ruth use. The lease that is with Babe Ruth is restricted to them and the High School (part of Babe Ruth’s contract with the school). If the Board were to consider helping in operations in regards to Babe Ruth, then they would be required to open the field to the public for uses other than specific to Babe Ruth.
That was an issue that came about when discussing the lease, because Babe Ruth wanted it restricted to them. There is much more to this than giving money for lights. It should be discussed with legal council.
Councilman Smith stated the most important thing is how we serve the constituents that occupy Babe Ruth. How do we serve the kids is the most important issue. If Babe Ruth is having financial problems in terms of funding, then the Board needs to look at it in a broader context. It deserves review and maybe a group can be created to look at the problem. Councilman Smith stated he would be willing to participate.
Councilman Walsh asked how much the High School uses the field. Mr. Hanusik stated they use it from April 1st, when their season starts until the time school ends. The school pays $2,500 field usage cost that comes to the league. They maintain the field when they use it. Mr. Hanusik stated they are being approached for additional funding.
Councilman Antonelli asked if other Towns use the field. Mr. Hanusik stated yes. Cairo, Athens, and Coxsackie all have teams affiliated with Catskill Babe Ruth and they use each other’s fields.
Tammy Chewins, who is a member of the Community Center, stated she believes the school, in the last three to four years, hasn’t been doing anything. She offered to work with Mr. Hanusik.
Supervisor Markou asked if there were any other comments.
Mr. Izzo stated there needs to be an honest dialogue between Babe Ruth and the Town. He stated it was a closed shop for many years.
He also asked about what fund the Deputy Highway Superintendent’s salary would be from. He stated that it appears to be a wash from either fund except that the outside town highway budget would decrease. He thanked the Board for taking a look at it. He believes it should be in the Town wide budget.
Councilman Smith stated he believed the Highway Superintendent is in the General Fund and believes the Deputy should be there too as they are both administrative.
Mr. Izzo stated Town Law requires the Highway Superintendent salary come from the A fund. The Board has a choice with the Deputy Highway Superintendent.
Councilman Smith stated that there is a clear distinction between a Deputy Highway Superintendent as opposed to a Foreman, there is an issue with regard to how his salary be paid. He recommends that both the Highway Superintendent and the Deputy be paid out of the A fund.
Supervisor Markou stated that the Board has a proposal and it indicates the impact and it is a wash for the Town.
Councilman Walsh asked what the percentage would be for the Village. Supervisor Markou stated it is a big impact on the Village.
Councilman O’Connor stated we need to look at a copy of his job description to see if we can move it. If his job description is purely administrative it is one thing, but his job description is not purely administrative.
Councilman Antonelli stated the Deputy does not have to be purely administrative. Sandy concurred.
Councilman O’Connor stated that the Highway Superintendent is an elected official and that is why it is mandated that his salary come from the General Fund. The Deputy is appointed by the Highway Superintendent. He states we need to be careful with what we do.
Councilman Smith asked Councilman O’Connor what his issue is with being careful. Councilman O’Connor stated that all Highway employees are paid from one fund. The Deputy is not an elected official. He wants to know if it is legal to pay out of either fund.
Sandy stated yes.
RESOLUTION # 124-2008 TO HAVE DEPUTY HIGHWAY
SUPERINTENDENT’S SALARY
COME FROM THE A FUND
Supervisor Markou, presented the following for consideration and adoption,
WHEREAS, the Deputy Highway Superintendent’s job description includes administrative functions, and
WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Catskill has discussed at great length and wishes to have his salary come from the General Fund, so
THEREFORE WE, the Catskill Town Board, will have the Deputy Highway Superintendent’s salary, beginning in the year 2009, come from the General Fund.
Councilman Antonelli seconded this motion.
Ayes 5 Nays 0 Absent 0 Motion Carried
Councilman Smith wants to form a committee in regards to Babe Ruth. He stated that we should see what best serves the interests of the kids because they are our heritage.
Mr. Izzo stated as long as the property was in the Cemetery hands, it was restricted to Babe Ruth. Once the property became public domain and restricted to just Babe Ruth, which is only one segment of baseball leagues in our County, then when restricting use of public property through a lease with only one aspect of that baseball game, then we aren’t serving the youth of our community. Only a small segment is being served. If the Town is going to fund a baseball league outside of the lease agreement, then any restriction for use of that field specific to Babe Ruth baseball should go away. This should be addressed when addressing use of the field “only by” Babe Ruth. He is not stating that Babe Ruth shouldn’t use the field, but for years, the only ones who were allowed
to use that field were Babe Ruth and any others who wished to use the field had to have an agreement with Babe Ruth.
Supervisor Markou asked if there were any other proposed changes. Councilman O’Connor spoke about the funding for the Community Center. He stated he has talked to many people, and with how times are today, he believes the Board should cut the budget. He would only like to see a 7% increase. He would like to see the funding for the Community Center back to $75,000.
Chris Sutherland, Kiskatom Fire Department, stated they passed their budget for 2009 with a zero percent increase. He sympathized with the Board in that preparing budgets is very difficult. They were able to do this by cutting across the Board, not just on certain line items.
Lorraine Warner, a grant writer at the Center, spoke with a lot of funders and stated the funding the Center gets allows them to leverage more money. Foundations look to see who is investing in the Center. If they see a decrease in Town funding, they will question if they should give money because it shows the Town is not supporting them.
Councilman O’Connor appreciates and agrees with this statement but the Center is only one fraction of the Town. He states there are a lot of Senior Citizens who are having a hard time paying their taxes and the Town will be increasing the taxes this year.
Councilman Smith stated that Ms. Darling, at the last budget hearing, presented where the Center stood in regards to the resurgence of the Center and their support of children. They supported the Summer Recreation program this year even though there was a monetary shortfall. He would like to keep the budget request at $100,000.
Tammy Chewins wanted the Board to know that the programs at the Center are free of charge. Councilman O’Connor stated the younger people today should be helping out more. He stated that the Center, at some point in time, will need to be self-sufficient.
Ms. Chewins has stated that the Center’s finances have always been transparent. She stated that if the money is cut, the children will be back on the street.
Mr. Burnett stated that some people this year will have to decide to either pay for their medication, heat or food. He concurs with Councilman O’Connor.
Mr. Izzo suggested to the Board that after election, the State Legislature will come back into session. He believes there may be two line items in jeopardy for the Town. This would be the State Aid, which may be reduced even further or gone all together, if the State is looking to cut costs, and the second item is the justice receipts. There was a decision by the Pataki administration that would have taken almost 50% of the revenue that the Town would have received and move to State revenues so they could run the Office of Court Administration. This never happened because the Association of Towns was astute enough to have that piece of legislation removed.
Mr. Izzo states that if those two line items are lost, then that money would need to be made up somewhere. He stated that the budget need not be passed until November 20th which would give the Town the time to see what the State Legislature will do. Then after the public hearing, the Town can make changes if need to be to offset revenues, if any will be lost.
He feels that if this happens, then the Town will not be able to fund the Community Center at 100% and they may have to cut back on services. The Town can not absorb significant State cuts and in turn fund programs at 100%.
Councilman Smith stated that justice receipts would require a legislative mandate to move and since it is the primary source of revenue for Towns, there would be uproar. Mr. Izzo stated yes it would, in normal times, but after election, only being elected for two years, the State legislators are only interested in the good of the State. If there is any way they can get money from that fund, they will. They have tried before and it was caught after it had already been passed. Mr. Izzo stated these are two items to watch out for when the Legislature come back into session. The Board will have time to at least get a sense or react to any changes before the Town has to pass their budget. The Town may be forced to cut by the mere fact that the State adjusted something in their
budget.
Councilman Antonelli stated we should wait the extra week to see what happens. In regards to the Community Center, Councilman Antonelli agrees with what Mr. Leggio stated at the last meeting. The Town has done nothing for the youth. The Town has taken care of the Seniors with the Senior Center. Councilman Antonelli feels that sooner or later, the Town will need to cut back the funding for the Community Center. At first, he agreed with Councilman O’Connor by cutting their budget by $25,000. After thinking about it and looking at Kellie’s report, the Town has only given $200,000 and maybe that isn’t enough to get the Community Center started. He believes that for another year or two, the Center needs the full amount of funding.
He also concurs with Councilman O’Connor about residents who will have to make tough choices this year in regards to heating or eating. He has spoken with the Supervisor to see if the Senior Center can be opened for those in times of need who will need a warm place to stay. He believes though, if the Town can stand the full funding of the Community Center, than ok, but maybe if it can’t, then reduce it not by the full $25,000, but maybe by $10,000 or $20,000. He believes that we should wait to see what the State Legislature will do.
Mr. Ahlberg questioned what the percentage of the Community Center’s budget is in the overall Town budget. Sandy stated it is less than 1%. He stated in general, Communities tend to subsidize Community Centers. He appreciates the pressures that the Board is under, however, the Center is a group of volunteers who are trying to make this work for the youth of the Community. Currently, they have $650,000 for capital improvements for the facility, but if the message coming from the Town, cutting their budget, makes it much more difficult to receive additional grant funding. Right now, they need the $100,000.
Councilman O’Connor stated that the Town of Catskill cannot afford a 10% tax increase.
Mr. Ahlberg understands the pressures of the Board but as a percentage of the overall budget, doesn’t believe that the $100,000 is causing angst. If their budget is cut, then programs will be cut.
Supervisor Markou stated that other programs have been cut. The Town is facing a tough year and this has not been an enjoyable experience. The Community Center may need to think about enacting a fee for service.
With no other changes, a resolution to adopt the preliminary budget and set a public hearing was made.
RESOLUTION #123-2008 TO SCHEDULE A PUBLIC HEARING
FOR THE 2009 PRELIMINARY BUDGET
Councilman Antonelli, presented the following for consideration and adoption,
WHEREAS, the Catskill Town Board has approved the Tentative Budget as the Preliminary Budget for 2009, and
WHEREAS, the Catskill Town Board wishes to schedule a Public Hearing on the Preliminary Budget, so
THEREFORE WE, the Catskill Town Board, resolve to hold a Public Hearing #23-2008 on the 2009 Preliminary Budget on Wednesday, November 5, 2008 at 6:15 pm, Catskill Town Hall, 439-441 Main Street, Catskill, NY, to hear comments and concerns regarding aforementioned budget.
Councilman Walsh, seconded this motion.
Ayes 4, Nays 1 (Councilman O’Connor) Absent 0 Motion Passed
Supervisor asked for a motion to adjourn the meeting. Councilman Antonelli made the motion and Councilman Smith seconded. Meeting adjourned at 8:29 pm.
Respectfully submitted,
Elizabeth Izzo
Town Clerk
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